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Post by Drew Steignton on Dec 25, 2019 17:59:32 GMT
There are, of course, sports other than football. Should they not have a place on this site too? Speedway is one. Not as high-profile as when I was young but it's still going strong(ish) and maintains reasonable number of followers. Yet it does appear to lurch from crisis to crisis and I read the long-term prognosis is not encouraging. I was ever so slightly drawn to speedway by the league tables and the town v town nature of the sport. Which places had teams was all very random. A few big cities but by no means all; chunky-sized towns; odds and sods places which just happened to have a track. A world of its own - wasn't there a Speedway Star magazine produced by the same people as Soccer Star in the 1960s? - although I've known football supporters who were keen speedway fans as well. This must have kept them occupied all year. Mind you I've also met people who've had a team in every sport. I met somebody once who was a Gillingham supporter but supported Surrey at cricket. Then I discovered he had a Warrington rugby league season ticket too. I never found out where he grew up but it was neither the Medway towns, Surrey nor Warrington. Nor was it Cincinnati. He supported them too. I think I chanced upon a similar tribe when I once sat behind a group of London Broncos supporters at the Don Valley Stadium in Sheffield. I believe Chalder was there too. Anyhow here's a fact. Exeter has had championship-winning teams in two sports: rugby union and speedway. There was a time when speedway was big in Exeter and rugby union relatively small. That was when the two sports shared the County Ground in St Thomas. Now, as is obligatory to say these days, the rugby is awesome and massive; the speedway, like the County Ground, has gone. Indeed one of the few clues to its presence in St Thomas is this small business on Old Vicarage Road:
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Post by CC on Dec 25, 2019 18:30:59 GMT
There are, of course, sports other than football. Should they not have a place on this site too? Definitely so, especially when mention of speedway gives a perfect excuse for showing this photo of Cliftonhill's track at the start of a race. When speedway finished in 1977, greyhounds took over but they are long gone as well. These days the track is simply somewhere for Albion Rovers' fans to have a lie down when things get too much. If stock cars are more your bag then it's got to be Central Park, Cowdenbeath: Finally, mention of Rugby League can't be made without wishing the very best to Rob Burrow. One of my 3 favourite RL players of all time along with David Barends and John Woods, Rob, who is 37, has been diagnosed with motor neurone disease.
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Post by Drew Steignton on Dec 26, 2019 12:31:15 GMT
1974 was the year Exeter Falcons won the British League. The big star was the New Zealander Ivan Mauger. There was also the American Scott Autrey. It’s not very often that a team from our part of the world wins a national title in any sport so Westward Diary, the local ITV news programme, was agog. Every week we were treated to a rather grainy film of bikes whizzing around the track and Ivan Mauger holding his arms aloft. For the uninitiated such as myself it could easily have been the same piece of film shown every time.
Here, in finishing order, were the teams in the top flight in 1974:
Exeter Falcons; Belle Vue Aces; Ipswich Witches; Sheffield Tigers; King's Lynn Stars; Newport; Halifax Dukes; Wimbledon Dons; Hackney Hawks; Leicester Lions; Wolverhampton Wolves; Swindon Robins; Cradley United; Poole Pirates; Coventry Bees; Hull Vikings; Oxford Rebels.
And the second tier:
Birmingham Brummies; Eastbourne Eagles; Boston Barracudas; Workington Comets; Crewe Kings; Teesside Tigers; Bradford Barons; Peterborough Panthers; Coatbridge Tigers; Canterbury Crusaders; Berwick Bandits; Barrow Bombers; Stoke Potters; Ellesmere Port Gunners; Long Eaton Archers; Rye House Rockets; Scunthorpe Saints; Sunderland Gladiators; Weymouth Wizards.
Alliteration abounds with several truly terrible names and an occasional nod in the direction of the local football team. Forty-five years later speedway has three divisions – premiership, championship and development – consisting of seven, eleven and eight teams respectively. That’s a decline from a total of thirty-six in 1974 to twenty-six this season with two of the teams being the second strings of Belle Vue and Leicester. Fifteen of the 1974 teams are still riding, twenty-one have gone (including the mighty Falcons) and nine are new.
Long-established Poole, Swindon, Wolverhampton, Ipswich, Belle Vue, King’s Lynn and Peterborough made up the premiership. You wonder if those are the teams which mean the most to the greatest number of people and have done for a while. Lower down Leicester, Berwick, Sheffield, Scunthorpe, Eastbourne, Birmingham, Cradley and Stoke still have speedway teams although the names have changed in a few cases.
I suspect the story of what has happened to the land on which speedway was raced is every bit as important as the sport’s declining popularity. No doubt too the two are linked.
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Post by Drew Steignton on Dec 26, 2019 12:53:26 GMT
Mention of speedway gives a perfect excuse for showing this photo of Cliftonhill's track at the start of a race. When speedway finished in 1977, greyhounds took over but they are long gone as well. These days the track is simply somewhere for Albion Rovers' fans to have a lie down when things get too much. The use of 'Fair' suggests this might have been a big holiday meeting in late July. Perhaps the stands weren't always so full. My calculation as to how the make-up of the speedway leagues has changed between 1974 and 2019 overlooks the fact that what was Coatbridge had been Glasgow and is now Glasgow again. Venues play a big part in Glasgow speedway history. There were a number before the short-lived move to Coatbridge and there have been plenty since including, it appears, a brief stay in Workington. If Cowdenbeath was the place for stock cars in Scotland it was Newton Abbot down here. It always seemed a less regulated sport than speedway with rival associations that each had its own World Championship. I often thought it was strange how so many world title winners came from Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset or Wiltshire. It may have been different over on the Fens. They had a lot of world champions too.
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Post by CC on Dec 27, 2019 16:23:12 GMT
It goes without saying that when the Stranraer Observer talks about sport that doesn't include so-called "country sports" such as the one that's in the news a great deal today, because it's the day after the traditional Boxing Day Hunts. Foxhunting is supposed to be illegal but it seems you are far more likely to be fined for being homeless than for killing a fox. Among the images captured from yesterday is a film of Sheffield's Hunt Saboteurs taking refuge in their van while a hunt member repeatedly bangs the corpse of a young fox against the windows while shouting threats and abuse. Meanwhile the Daily Telegraph includes, on it front page, what its editor obviously feels is a cute photograph of a wee child blowing a horn to summon the start of a hunt. We can probably take it as read that this is the beginning of a campaign to overturn the ban, which doesn't appear to be being policed anyway.
A more acceptable tradition of the day is football, except here in the South West of Scotland there wasn't any yesterday because neither the Sooth nor the SPFL second, third and fourth tiers arranged any fixtures. Only the Premier League had a full set of games, and the smiling winners in the Edinburgh derby were Hibernian. At this rate Daniel Stendel of Hearts is going to set new records for being "under pressure" according to Sportscene.
Hey! This thread is supposed to be about other sports. Remember? Aye, sorry about that. Leeds Rhinos gave a sign that they are putting last season's miseries behind them by giving Wakefield Trinity a festive trouncing. Other than that 26 December was a bit of a sporting desert. There was some Test cricket and a few Welsh Rugby Union games but anyone who is interested in cricket or RU will know the details already so there's no point in droning on about them here.
There was no skiing in Glencoe either. A fire in the wee small hours of Christmas morning destroyed the base restaurant and cut off all power to the resort. Police are looking for a character who was seen at the time wearing a red coat and driving a sleigh. He is believed to have set fire to the building by delivering a suspect package which looked very much like a Lynx after shave set but was actually an explosive device.
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don
New Member
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No Fitba
Dec 29, 2019 10:35:29 GMT
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Post by don on Dec 29, 2019 10:35:29 GMT
Great info here, thanks. Alliteration deffo abounds in Speedway. As a bairn I saw Canterbury Crusaders v Teesside Tigers and the Edinburgh Monarchs were originally from Meadowbank.
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Post by CC on Feb 4, 2020 9:44:00 GMT
Boring!
On our side of the pond Naeb'dy cares about American sport, or, as they insist on saying over there, sports. This means that no matter how many times we are given information and hype on the subjects we are not interested in basketball, baseball and American football. They are all seem dull to me and the players are obscenely overpaid and over-publicised.
The Super Bowl? Naeb'dy cares. I don't want to know who won and certainly have less than no interest in who mimed at half time or what they wore to do so. The same goes for basketball. With all due respect to his daughter and to the other people killed in the helicopter accident last week, Kobe Bryant would probably still have been in prison for rape were it not for the fact that he was wealthy enough to pay off his accuser.
Baseball is incomprehensible to me. It seems to be a crazy version of rounders. The fans obviously love it and it seems to create a good atmosphere but I don't have a clue about the rules. Still, Americans (and some Scots) probably feel the same way about cricket, so if the people of the USA love their baseball than fair play to them, but that's no reason to bore the rest of us by telling us who's winning the World Series, because we don't care.
Then there's ice hockey. It's mad. I have been to a game and it was impossible to follow because the players continually jumped in and out of the playing arena and the puck is so tiny that unless you're watching on television it's invisible. It's like some insane ballet in which big men in crash helmets all rush towards each other, wave sticks around and start smashing each other against the fence. Then, after 20 minutes of nonsense, there's another 20 minutes of hot dog eating before they come back, go through the same rituals again, go off again while the crowd eat yet more sausage and the finally there's another 20 minutes of apparently aimless violence.
To be fair, the game I saw didn't take place in the USA but in Sweden. It attracted the very dregs of Växjö, who were largely drunk and aggressive and made Sieg Heil salutes while singing the Swedish national anthem. We left after the second 20 minutes, partly through fear and alienation but mostly because of sheer boredom. It was mince.
In England, Wales, France and, crazily, Canada the Rugby League season has begun. Fixtures like Castleford v Toronto can fairly be described as absurd and a waste of the Earth's resources. If the Canadians and Americans can play in their own soccer league I see no reason why they can't do likewise re Rugby League. I actually like the game far more than its 15-a-side equivalent but it sold its soul to Rupert Murdoch long ago. The team strips are a horrible parody of what they traditionally looked like and are swathed in advertising from top to bottom, while the silly contrived titles like Warriors, Bears, Rhinos &c are embarrassing. Warrington Wolves is the daftest of all; Wolverhampton Wanderers are the Wolves and there's no place for any more. Warrington have always been the Wire and I'm sure that to the fan-in-the-street they are still the Wire to this very day.
Sheer lack of integrity has been demonstrated by Catalans Dragons' signing of Israel Fulau, who was exiled from the game in Australia because of his unapologetic homophobia. Should the Catalans be drawn against Halifax then Fax's gay prop forward Keegan Hirst will be expected to take the field and play against a team, one of whose members has openly (and, to be fair, honestly) said that in his opinion all gays are going to go to Hell. Fans who were glad to see the back of the unpleasant Ben Barba will mostly be less than thrilled to see Fulau turning out in the Super League.
Rugby Union's 6 Nations tournament has begun, and when it finishes Italy will be placed last, Scotland 5th and other 4 spots will be competed for by France, Ireland, England and Wales. Scotland's "almost won but didn't quite make it" defeat on Saturday was 100% Scottish. No matter what the sport, Scotland will always fail. Maybe, together with the rain, it's the price we have to pay for living in the most attractive and least right wing of the six nations that take part.
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No Fitba
Feb 4, 2020 12:14:39 GMT
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Post by Drew Steignton on Feb 4, 2020 12:14:39 GMT
The structure of the big four "American" sports - baseball, basketball, football and ice hockey - has always intrigued me. They're usually highly-professionalised and commercialised, franchised and restricted to not many more than a couple of dozen big cities. The continental size of the country might make this necessarily so but, in our terms anyway, it all has the taste of "the Premier League or nothing at all". As a side issue it's interesting how rugby union and rugby league are now very much marketed along the lines of only the top flights being of real interest. That's pretty American when you think about it.
I've often wondered what opportunity there is to watch any of the four sports if you live in an American city of, say, 100,000 people. Ice hockey might not be easy because a specialist facility is needed. But what of the rest?
My understanding is that Minor League Baseball might provide something in that sport. Next-grade-down basketball and football, by contrast, appear to be delivered through universities, some of which have enormous stadiums in unlikely places (not unlike the GAA in Ireland). I happen to live in a town of just over 100,000 which has professional football and rugby union teams along with a university which is always keen to make noises when it is (unofficially) ranked (by one source or another) in the UK's top 10 or the world's top 100. Following the US basketball or football model I'd guess we'd all be following the university's blue riband teams rather than professional clubs bearing the name of the town. That's quite a different concept to which we are accustomed. But try explaining promotion or relegation - let alone non-league football (although they may more easily grasp minor counties cricket I suppose) - to the average American sports fan. From our perspective you could have imagined some of the American sports having professional (or semi-proessional) leagues at least at state level. Apparently not unless I'm missing something.
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No Fitba
Feb 4, 2020 16:02:44 GMT
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Post by Drew Steignton on Feb 4, 2020 16:02:44 GMT
I actually like the game far more than its 15-a-side equivalent but it sold its soul to Rupert Murdoch long ago. Rugby Union started to officially embrace professionalism around the time of that television deal and, looking back, you're inclined to ask if either sport realised what that might entail. It may have been a case of one group of people working through (a), (b) and (c) as possibilities whilst another were already on (d), (e) and (f). As a football follower, living in an area where there's a greater level of interest in Rugby Union than in many other parts, I vaguely thought the game would become semi-professional at its higher levels with just a small number of professionals who were paid no more than third and fourth division footballers. The international game was big but the club game was modest. Perhaps it would be the Welsh clubs that paid the most. You couldn't imagine a club like Exeter even matching a Southern League football club. Maybe that's how some in the sport itself saw it; who knows what Rugby League expected to happen. But it must have become soon apparent to some Union people that, through its social standing and associated business networks, the game had access to serious amounts of money. Suddenly there were clubs who could go about their business in a fashion akin to the upper echelons of English football (albeit not the very top) as opposed to Rugby League's model that was more in line with the lower divisions of the Football League. And, once the process had started, clubs could metamorphise from being run by committee to falling under the control and ownership of wealthy individuals. Who'd have predicted that other than the sort of mind who was always several steps ahead when they sold off the utilities and the council houses? Rugby League never stood a chance. Union was soon blocking the exits from the M62 on to the M1, A1(M) and M6. The game's onward march has even impinged on football in places. A generation ago Exeter had a rugby team playing at a speedway track. The idea of their turnover and support reaching a fraction of Plymouth Argyle's would have been fanciful. You would also have questioned the whole idea of Wasps even being a secondary tenant at the stadium in Coventry. Football, as it happens, has largely been able to carry on regardless; it's been different for Rugby League.
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Post by CC on Feb 4, 2020 17:08:20 GMT
Rugby League has seen some clever improvements since Eddie Waring's day; 4 points rather than 3 for a try and 1 rather than 2 for a drop goal, 40/20s, further penalties for dissent and the 6 tackle rule have all improved the game as a spectacle. On the other hand, non-competitive scrums seem a waste of time. Why bother? At least in football the tendency not to compete for bounce-ups ("dropped balls" to Motsonian pedants) is not enshrined in the rule book. It's also a good thing that players get sent off these days for doing things that used to make Eddie chuckle, like punching an opponent senseless. On the other hand the enormous advantage of being in the Super League, in terms of money, sponsorship and publicity, has been disastrous for some wee clubs. The obvious examples have been Blackpool, Bramley and Huyton, who have all ceased to exist, but it's caused many another club to live hand-to-mouth as well. In the 1960s Grandstand viewers were familiar with the names of towns such as Batley, Whitehaven and Dewsbury, whose teams never get a mention on the BBC, Sky or anywhere else these days.
When the two of us went to watch Featherstone Rovers play one Sunday afternoon I could have lived without the dancing girls and the plethora of substitutions which became a bit bewildering after a while. I enjoyed the game, though, and the place was really atmospheric even though calling Post Office Road the Big Fellas Stadium was never likely to catch on. Featherstone have a good set up but they have not been invited to join the Super League and seem content to stay part-time and compete as one of the best teams outside it. On the other hand, Swinton have been exiled from their home area for so many years they might as well change their name to the Nomads, and the much-loved old grounds of Oldham and Hunslet, to name just two, have been levelled and the teams shoved into pitifully inadequate replacements.
Both League and Union have messed around with promotion and relegation. Rotherham, who might have been a Northern Exeter, were blackballed from the English Premiership on account of their poor facilities but a suggestion that they could play at Millmoor instead fell on such stony ground that it was very difficult not to conclude that the town was considered just too working class for the game's superior image. The Scottish version this year is too ridiculous even to contemplate. Great names like Hawick and Jed-Forest are left to have a kick around among themselves while franchises with stupid Americanised names hog the top division. Melrose, with their great history and famously pretty wee stadium, have had to call themselves Southern Knights, which is the silliest rebranding since Gerry Dorsey became Engelbert Humperdinck, and the only two clubs who ever get a mention in the media are Glasgow and Edinburgh, who don't play against any other Scottish teams at all.
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No Fitba
Feb 4, 2020 17:27:29 GMT
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Post by Drew Steignton on Feb 4, 2020 17:27:29 GMT
Now here's another thing you might not have predicted when Union became professional: the success and appeal of the Irish provinces. They've almost tapped into the place that was envisioned with all that talk of English football clubs moving to Belfast or Dublin. Not quite on that scale - and the spectators may be a different group - but it's big and Limerick has been pulled in as well. Having a 26,000 capacity rugby ground in the city helps there.
Rugby certainly has a curious place in Irish society and it appears to have broken away from the Garrison Game image. I'm imagining it still has a slightly narrower appeal in Belfast and Dublin than it does in Munster. But, nonetheless, pretty mainstream. Who isn't interested now?
Yet I'm still curious how an interest in rugby sits with soccer and GAA. I guess there's a follower who likes the big-time version of all three. I've encountered people like that in Devon and Somerset over the years; a genuine interest in top-flight sport across the codes with no concern with what lies below. I guess you'd call this a horizontal interest as opposed to vertical. The only conclusion about this group in Ireland might be that they'll have no interest in the League of Ireland. That must appear rather poor fare alongside all the other riches although I rather like it myself.
Any GAA-rugby crossover intrigues me. On the surface I can visualise GAA enthusiasts being far more interested in Liverpool and Manchester United than the Six Nations. Yet the sports are massive in Munster with Cork City's 3,000-odd supporters (highly respectable by League of Ireland standards) appearing insignificant by comparison. Are the rugby and GAA communities exclusive of each other or is there an easy-going overlap? It's a particularly intriguing question given Munster's history.
And, as I've seen described elsewhere, several of those GAA stadiums are "big beasts". According to Wikipedia: Croke Park 82,000; Limerick, Thurles, Cork and Killarney 40,000 plus. Even Casement Park in Belfast is considerably larger than Windsor Park.
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Post by Em on Feb 4, 2020 17:57:22 GMT
My Mate Chris has asked me a couple of questions about sport in the US:
How do fans cope with (a) never being promoted or relegated? The same way that fans of county cricket cope. They just like seeing games. Surely, the more pertinent question is how do fans of, say, Chesterfield cope with being relegated into some obscure league where they kick a tin can around with players from East Poedunk.
How do fans cope with living in cities with no teams at all? E.g. Austin Texas. They don't have a profession American football team. So they only get about 70,000 fans to the stadium to watch the Univ of Texas play college football. Ditto basketball. Smaller places without college teams watch minor league teams. (Ever see the movie Bull Durham? It's quite amusing.)
How do fans cope with watching their local teams bugger off to a different time zone, leaving the fans with an empty stadium and no-one to go and watch. They watch on telly.
I will say, though, that lik Chris I don't care much for the main American sports. I make an exception of baseball, though. It can b very exciting, and it comes with a lot of history and culture.
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Post by CC on Feb 4, 2020 18:39:53 GMT
Em has been in the USA for so long he doesn't know that there is promotion and relegation in cricket's County Championship, or that nobody is interested in the table at all. These days one-day cricket and Test matches bring in crowds; the County Championship is a very poor relation. If you were to ask someone in the street, even in Taunton, there's a chance they might have no idea whether Somerset are in the First or Second Division. I certainly don't know. All I know about county cricket in the 21st century is that Derbyshire are always bad.
Mention of the League of Ireland conjures up comparisons with the Scottish League. I expect Cork City would be a very respectable club in the SPFL. It's shame that the Irish immigrants who formed Hibernian, Celtic and at least 20 other football clubs in the 19th century didn't start GAA clubs as well. Not only would Gaelic football and hurling have added much to the Scottish sporting scene but it would have been a game in which Scotland might have realistically claimed to have the second best national side in the world.
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Post by Drew Steignton on Feb 4, 2020 19:44:05 GMT
It's shame that the Irish immigrants who formed Hibernian, Celtic and at least 20 other football clubs in the 19th century didn't start GAA clubs as well. Not only would Gaelic football and hurling have added much to the Scottish sporting scene but it would have been a game in which Scotland might have realistically claimed to have the second best national side in the world. I was at Dublin airport in November waiting for friends arriving on another flight. A group of young people wearing blue tracksuits arrived in the meantime. I noticed the word "Camanachd" on their clothing and bags. I can't say it - or spell it of my own accord - but I knew this was Scotland arriving for the shinty-hurling international which they duly won in convincing fashion. At least Scotland are one of the seven British GAA "counties" along with Yorkshire, Lancashire, Warwickshire, Hertfordshire, Gloucestershire and London. There's a small amount of shinty played in Devon and Cornwall; several student teams along with a handful of clubs. Exeter and the Falmouth/Truro area are the hotspots with Cowick Barton playing fields in Devon being the closest we have to The Dell at Kingussie. GAA-wise we fall under Gloucestershire. Perhaps our mate the Killarney hurling man is a supporter of the local game.
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Post by Mad As A Haggis Hunt on Feb 6, 2020 16:37:46 GMT
It's shame that the Irish immigrants who formed Hibernian, Celtic and at least 20 other football clubs in the 19th century didn't start GAA clubs as well. Not only would Gaelic football and hurling have added much to the Scottish sporting scene but it would have been a game in which Scotland might have realistically claimed to have the second best national side in the world. I was at Dublin airport in November waiting for friends arriving on another flight. A group of young people wearing blue tracksuits arrived in the meantime. I noticed the word "Camanachd" on their clothing and bags. I can't say it - or spell it of my own accord - but I knew this was Scotland arriving for the shinty-hurling international which they duly won in convincing fashion. At least Scotland are one of the seven British GAA "counties" along with Yorkshire, Lancashire, Warwickshire, Hertfordshire, Gloucestershire and London. There's a small amount of shinty played in Devon and Cornwall; several student teams along with a handful of clubs. Exeter and the Falmouth/Truro area are the hotspots with Cowick Barton playing fields in Devon being the closest we have to The Dell at Kingussie. GAA-wise we fall under Gloucestershire. Perhaps our mate the Killarney hurling man is a supporter of the local game.
...I think I'm the Kilkenny hurling man, not the Killarney one!......
....heres a song boot t'shinty, though it equally applies to hurling methinks.....
....Meet the Ash.....
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